Transcript [00:00] And I want to start with Tucker Carlson. [00:01] The the US president finally basically [00:05] publicly [00:07] uh wiped him, but he held back a little [00:10] bit. Do you think something bigger is [00:11] coming from Trump, particularly after [00:13] today where Tucker Carlson said that [00:15] complete surrender means that now US [00:18] troops can essentially rape the wives [00:20] and daughters of those left behind? I [00:22] don't know if you saw that, but this was [00:24] his latest just recently. [00:26] Unconditional surrender means foreign [00:28] troops get to rape your wife and [00:29] daughter if they want. And everyone [00:31] knows that. And that has been, if [00:33] there's one consistent lesson of [00:34] history, it means unconditional [00:36] surrender means foreign troops get to [00:39] rape your wife and daughter. Everyone [00:42] can feel that. That's like the most [00:44] adistic instinct there is. And so to [00:46] avoid that, people will do anything. And [00:49] so that's why it requires that level of [00:51] force to get a population subdued to the [00:54] point of unconditional surrender. That's [00:56] why. And so in this case, of course, we [00:59] don't have the ground force necessary. I [01:02] don't think Americans would voluntarily [01:03] participate in it. I I just don't think [01:05] we can do that. It would require weapons [01:07] of mass destruction. It would require [01:09] presumably nuclear weapons in order to [01:11] do that. And let's stop let's not lie to [01:12] ourselves. We're moving toward that. [01:15] >> Well, I think it's good. Let me explain. [01:18] you know, in the if you think about the [01:20] battlefield as an information warfare [01:23] space, right? And we're and there are [01:26] people who are locked into certain sides [01:28] and then there's the big floating middle [01:31] and that floating middle shifts around [01:34] in terms of its opinions and you're and [01:36] the goal in this information warfare [01:38] space is to peel off more of that middle [01:41] onto your side. Right? That's how the [01:43] battlefield looks. The more extreme and [01:46] unhinged Tucker Carlson becomes, like [01:49] when he attacked Kabad last week, every [01:52] Jew in the world knows, and a lot of [01:54] non-Jews know, that Kabad is the least [01:56] political organization on the planet. [01:58] All they do is humanitarian work. And [02:01] their theology is that like, if we all [02:03] are just better people, that'll bring [02:05] the Messiah. Like, they're just the [02:07] sweetest people in the world. And they [02:09] don't get involved in any politics in [02:11] the Jewish community at all. and he [02:13] attacks them for being you. So when he [02:16] does things like this or or saying [02:18] things about Israeli soldiers or when he [02:20] sits on a stage in Saudi Arabia, which [02:22] according to Open Doors International is [02:25] one of the worst places on the planet to [02:27] be a Christian, where on the books, [02:30] conversion to Christianity brings a [02:32] death penalty. And even though they [02:33] don't fulfill that all the time, if a [02:35] woman converts to Christianity in Saudi [02:37] Arabia, her children are confiscated [02:39] from her. That's what they do. Churches [02:41] are illegal. and he sits on a stage [02:42] there and says, "As a fervent Christian, [02:45] I feel very comfortable in the seat of [02:47] Islam, but there are 2 million [02:49] Christians who are among the most [02:50] persecuted Christians in the world in [02:52] Saudi Arabia." So when he does things [02:54] like this, he's not gaining any new [02:57] followers. Here's the point I was making [02:58] about the battlefield. He's not gaining [03:00] any new followers. The more unhinged he [03:03] gets, the more he narrows the population [03:06] of people who take him seriously. And [03:08] just think of it this way, Aaron. Every [03:10] time he goes a little too far, there's [03:13] one more slice of his audience that [03:15] walks away from him and he doesn't gain [03:17] anyone new. There's no one there's no [03:19] one more extreme than him who wasn't on [03:22] board with him yet who suddenly is. So, [03:25] I think it's good. I I I want Tucker to [03:28] keep going in this direction. He's [03:30] shrinking his influence. He's shrinking [03:31] his audience. And Trump, who always has [03:34] his finger on the pulse of where the [03:36] middle is, that's how he won. That's how [03:38] he won in 16. That's how he Well, he he [03:41] really won in 20, but that's how he also [03:43] won in 241, [03:45] >> right? So, I think Tucker Carlson is [03:47] doing us all a big favor. [03:48] >> He as he pushes the envelope and pushes [03:51] the envelope, let them scream, let them [03:52] be loud, but they are not gaining [03:54] influence. And it's a great point you [03:57] make in that I would argue that that [03:59] Tucker is far more dangerous than [04:01] someone like Candace because Candace has [04:02] gone completely bat beep crazy. Whereas [04:04] Tucker kind of had that semblance of [04:07] still kind of being semiredible. He was [04:10] on Fox News for a long time. He's just [04:11] asking questions. He's just asking [04:13] questions. He's now completely crossed [04:15] that line. I wanted to ask you about [04:17] Megan Kelly as well because she shared [04:18] something from Charlie today and kind [04:21] of, you know, a post he'd made about the [04:24] the drums of war are beating and and [04:26] trying to frame those thoughts as the [04:29] exact thoughts that he would have now [04:31] given all the circumstances that have [04:33] changed since Charlie's death. You knew [04:36] Charlie Kirk almost better than anyone. [04:39] Do do you agree that he would still feel [04:41] that this was not a just war or that [04:43] this action shouldn't have been taken? [04:46] >> Well, I wouldn't say that I knew him [04:47] better than anyone, but his positions on [04:49] the Middle East and Israel, I'm [04:50] definitely uh I I could say that I'm [04:53] more qualified than than almost anyone [04:55] to talk about because the entire [04:56] substance of my relationship was that [04:58] Charlie had subject matter experts on [05:01] every topic that he talked about that he [05:03] relied on to get just get good [05:05] information. and he he knew that if he [05:07] was going to talk about Israel, he [05:08] should have someone on the ground in [05:10] Israel who knows the situation, who also [05:12] understands conservative America first, [05:14] MAGA politics. And that was the and that [05:17] was a relationship. It was a very [05:18] professional relationship. Uh but it was [05:20] it was an ongoing daily texting and [05:22] talking relationship. Um, and I'll tell [05:25] you what he would say because he said it [05:27] in June in in in the June 12-day war, [05:30] Charlie in the leadup to it was in the [05:33] camp that was that was opposed to [05:35] America stepping in and taking action. [05:37] He was opposed. Uh, meaning he was in [05:40] the same sense that Steve Bannon and [05:42] Tucker Carlson and many others in the [05:44] America First movement were saying, [05:45] "Look, this is Israel's war. Let Israel [05:47] fight it. America shouldn't get [05:48] involved." and worrying about getting [05:51] involved in a regime change war or [05:53] another Middle Eastern quagmire. [05:55] Charlie was there except for one [05:58] difference where he broke from that [05:59] other pack which was he said this and he [06:02] said it multiple times. He said it on [06:03] Jesse Waters on Fox. He said it on his [06:05] own show. He said, "Donald Trump has [06:08] earned my trust and he has earned all of [06:10] our trust and therefore even though I'm [06:12] worried about this, even though I don't [06:14] like this, even though I'm afraid of [06:15] escalation, even though I feel that [06:17] America should be more focused [06:18] domestically, yada yada yada the whole [06:21] the whole litany we know." He then his [06:25] pivot was he said, "However, I trust [06:28] Donald Trump. He's earned our trust that [06:29] he's not going to he's not going to make [06:32] those mistakes." And then when Midnight [06:34] Hammer happened and all of the doomsday [06:37] predictions of the Tucker Carlson's of [06:39] the world, oh, there's going to be a, [06:40] you know, there's going to be a third [06:41] world war. Russia and China are going to [06:43] join. Of course, they didn't. [06:45] >> They've been really solid to their good [06:47] friends. [06:48] >> Oh, I love them. I love them. They're [06:49] hilarious. Gee, X, we're under a little [06:53] bit of pressure. Would you mind sending [06:54] a X? I mean, [06:56] >> oh no, it's better than it's better than [06:57] that, Aaron. Vladimir Putin, listen to [07:00] this. On the second day of this war, [07:02] Vladimir Putin sent a condolence message [07:06] to the Iranians for the death of Ali [07:08] Kami. In the condolence message, he said [07:11] that Russia stands committed to our [07:13] strategic partnership with Iran. Now, [07:15] what's the problem with that? The [07:16] strategic partnership with Iran signed [07:18] between Russia and Iran was signed in [07:21] January 2025, right after Trump was [07:24] elected. and it is a military and [07:27] defense strategic partnership which [07:29] means that they're supposed to be [07:31] helping them and he's not helping them [07:33] and he sends a condolence note. Putin [07:35] cracks me up but [07:38] >> he [07:39] but you know back to you know back to [07:41] Tucker when all of those doomsday [07:42] predictions didn't come true. Charlie [07:45] came out smelling like a rose because [07:47] Charlie said afterwards he said look [07:49] listen I was worried but Trump was [07:51] right. We didn't get entangled in a [07:53] long-term mess. No American soldiers [07:55] were killed. There was no boots on the [07:57] ground. There was no spike in oil [07:58] prices. There was no escalation with [08:00] Russia and China. And he acknowledged [08:03] and what Charlie would be saying now [08:04] would be the same thing. He'd be saying, [08:05] "I don't like this." [08:07] >> Yeah. [08:07] >> But I trust Trump. I'm sure that's what [08:10] he'd be saying. It it's so interesting [08:12] because for Megan Kelly to use Charlie [08:16] Kirk's phrase tweet from however long [08:19] ago and it it feels very disingenuous [08:22] when she refuses to call out uh Candace [08:24] Owens for completely trying to destroy [08:27] Erica Kirk, Charlie's widow. I I just it [08:30] feels it feels tacky and it feels dirty. [08:34] >> Well, that's Megan. I mean, look, when [08:37] you look at the three of them, these [08:38] these that you mentioned so far in this [08:41] discussion, they're not all but they're [08:42] not all the same. I would say Tucker is [08:44] very is is u is is is brilliant about [08:48] messaging. He's one of the he's one of [08:50] the best communicators of our generation [08:52] >> and that's why he's so successful. I [08:54] personally believe and this is just an [08:56] observation from watching him closely [08:58] for many years. [08:59] >> I and and I believe this even back when [09:01] we all liked him when he was on Fox and [09:03] we didn't know what you know what I've [09:05] always I've always been bothered by the [09:07] fact that he appears to me to be someone [09:09] who is not well read. Um, people who [09:11] speak that much in public generally [09:14] quote books that they've read at some [09:16] point in conversations, especially in [09:18] long- form conversations. Tucker has a [09:20] lot of long- form conversations. Listen [09:22] to him, Aaron. He never I don't think [09:25] he's well read and he often acts [09:27] surprised when someone brings up a [09:29] historical fact that to anyone who's a [09:32] simple student of history is obvious. I [09:34] believe that Tucker Carlson is not well [09:36] read and that he's a poser, but he's [09:38] very smart. Candace Owens is actually [09:40] not that smart and and therefore and and [09:43] she marginalizes herself. What I was [09:46] talking about at the beginning of this [09:47] conversation about narrowing your [09:48] audience and not gaining followers. I [09:51] have no worries about Candace Owens. [09:52] She's only talking to this bizarre echo [09:55] chamber and maybe a lot of bots boosting [09:58] her numbers. I'm not worried about her [09:59] in the slightest. Megan Kelly is just is [10:03] really just a floating grifter. She's [10:06] just someone who go she sees look here's [10:09] an interesting uh uh experiment I did. [10:12] Matt Gates, the the former congressman [10:16] in the last year or so suddenly made a [10:18] sharp turn against Israel and it came [10:20] out of nowhere because he was never pro [10:22] or anti or anything. He never expressed [10:24] opinions about Israel one way or the [10:26] other. If he did, they were kind of [10:27] pro-Israel. And then he suddenly pivots [10:29] hard against Israel. So, I went to his [10:31] Twitter feed and I looked at all the [10:33] posts that he put up and I I just simply [10:35] looked at the engagement numbers on [10:37] about a hundred posts. I spent a couple [10:39] hours on it. [10:41] Every post that was anti-Israel or or [10:44] implying something about the Jews had [10:46] massive engagement. And every other [10:49] topic that he tweeted about [10:52] a fraction and I said to myself, it's [10:54] very simple. there is good money to be [10:56] made online by attacking Israel and by [10:59] implying that you're edgy and you know [11:01] and and that you're noticing the Jews. [11:03] So, I don't take a lot of this stuff [11:06] seriously. I I took it more seriously [11:08] before I went to America Fest. Actually, [11:10] I go every year to TPUSA Amfest. That's [11:12] where I first met Charlie years ago. And [11:15] at this year's Amfest, I was expecting a [11:17] more hostile environment because of all [11:19] this stuff going on. [11:20] >> Yeah. And what I found was actually that [11:23] the people I met, the crowd was actually [11:25] quite, [11:27] you know, on board with being not only [11:29] pro- Israel but pro- western [11:30] civilization. When Tucker Carlson stood [11:33] on that stage at Amfest this past [11:34] December and rebuked the audience for [11:38] criticizing Islam, the crowd was not [11:41] with him. [11:42] >> Yeah. [11:43] >> So much so that at Amfest, there were [11:45] about 40 to 50,000 people there. They do [11:47] polling and it's pretty significant [11:50] polling. They're I mean they're polling [11:51] tens of thousands of people and one of [11:54] the poll questions done at Afest this [11:55] year was a multiple choice question [11:58] asking what you believe is the greatest [11:59] threat to America. And there was a whole [12:01] bunch of things on the list. The Chinese [12:02] Communist Party, immigration, the [12:04] national debt, you know, the whole [12:05] litany of threats. The number one threat [12:08] chosen by the people at Afest this year [12:11] was Islam. [12:13] >> Yeah. and there. So, so think about the [12:15] disconnect between where Tucker is and [12:17] where the crowd is. And when when the [12:19] when the participants were pled about [12:21] their view of the USIsrael relationship, [12:24] over 80% said that they still consider [12:26] Israel either is the number one ally or [12:29] an ally of the United States. So, you [12:33] know, we're talking about I I I think we [12:35] have to remember, Erin, that online [12:36] world is not necessarily reality.
