Transcript [00:00] The interesting part is you talk about [00:01] Charlie and how intelligent he was and [00:03] he he was one of the most phenomenal [00:05] human beings to ever live, but you also [00:07] made the point last time we spoke and [00:09] Candace maybe not so much included in [00:11] terms of intelligence and depth, but [00:13] Megan Kelly clearly smart, Tucker [00:15] Carlson clearly very smart and and and [00:18] maybe it is just the financial factor [00:20] that motivates them. But if it's not, if [00:22] they've also been able to be kind of [00:25] tricked or coerced or indoctrinated, [00:28] then anyone's vulnerable really, aren't [00:30] they? [00:30] >> Yeah. It's interesting, you know, when [00:32] you it makes me think about part, you [00:34] know, some of what made Charlie such an [00:36] admirable person. [00:38] Charlie was suspicious of everybody, but [00:41] not in a not in a conspiratorial way, [00:42] but in meaning he he he took everything. [00:45] He was always measuring everything and [00:46] he wanted to hear from different voices. [00:48] This is how I ended up as part of his [00:50] life, right? He wanted to, you know, he [00:51] heard from those voices. He wanted to [00:53] make sure he had someone on the ground [00:54] in Israel that he could talk to. And and [00:57] he was always seeking people who knew [01:00] more than him. He had a number of people [01:03] in his life who were uh older than him, [01:08] who were mentors on different topics and [01:10] different areas of his life that he was [01:11] constantly uh consulting with. There was [01:15] a certain humility in that. He didn't [01:16] think he had it all figured out. and uh [01:20] you know and that's and that's part of [01:21] that's part of what made him that's part [01:23] of what made him who he was. But yeah, [01:25] listen, people are vulnerable, [01:26] especially when you end up at a again at [01:28] a young age having access. [01:31] When you have access, there's this [01:33] there, you know, you feel like you're [01:34] getting inside information. You know, [01:36] like when Candace says, "I have [01:38] information all the way from the from [01:39] the top in the intelligence community," [01:41] she's actually telling the truth [01:43] >> because if the head of counter [01:44] intelligence is telling her that this [01:46] that this that this ridiculous [01:48] conspiracy theory has has validity, [01:51] >> she feels very much justified in saying [01:54] that it does. [01:56] >> Yeah. And emboldened, doesn't she? And [01:59] in some ways, you know, the role that [02:01] he's played in so much pain and [02:04] suffering [02:05] >> is significant. And and does he get held [02:07] to account? We'll wait. We'll wait and [02:09] see. I guess in a moral way or a [02:11] religious way, we all do eventually, [02:13] don't we? Get held to account. Speaking [02:15] of Christian Zionism, Rabbi, you're [02:18] fired up. C can you explain this to me? [02:20] I'm a good Catholic girl, but probably [02:22] not as good [02:22] >> at this Joe. This goes right into the [02:25] Joe Ken conversation because you know [02:27] Joe and and Candace and this uh what's [02:31] her name? Carrie [02:32] >> Mari Jean. Yeah. The beauty queen. [02:36] >> Yeah. What? Yeah. Exactly. The Catholic [02:38] who was harassing [02:39] >> Jean. [02:39] >> She was harassing Shabas Kenbalam at [02:41] that hearing. That's that's how she [02:43] that's how she made her fame. That's how [02:44] she got her her her seven minutes. Um [02:47] >> yeah. So there's something there's [02:49] something interesting that's happened in [02:50] our political discourse about Israel [02:52] over the last really maybe half a year [02:55] mainly which is that the whole issue of [03:00] of Christian Zionism and the theological [03:05] attack on it coming from a lot of [03:08] Catholics but not only Catholics coming [03:10] from Christians who view Christian [03:12] Zionism as a kind of heresy and are kind [03:14] of doubling down and part of This what [03:17] makes it really dark is part of the [03:19] messaging and you hear it from Tucker a [03:20] lot and from Candace a lot is that the [03:24] Jews of today aren't the real Jews. [03:27] You've heard this before, I'm sure. [03:29] >> Yeah. [03:29] >> Right. You hear this and and I find it [03:31] actually a fascinating claim. I actually [03:33] find it very interesting because and [03:35] what makes it so interesting here's what [03:37] makes it really interesting is that it's [03:38] brand new. [03:41] >> Let me explain what I mean. If you go [03:43] back to let's say Martin Luther who [03:46] lived in the 16th century, okay, hated [03:50] Jews, despised them. He wrote a whole [03:52] book called On the Jews and their lies, [03:56] okay? Despised Jews, but he never [03:58] claimed that the Jews of his time were [04:00] not the real Jews. He absolutely [04:02] acknowledged that they were. There are [04:05] lots of Jew haters [04:07] throughout history. A lot of a lot of [04:09] Jew haters in the name of Jesus [04:11] throughout history. [04:12] But they didn't claim that the Jews of [04:14] their time period weren't the real Jews. [04:16] >> Such a good point. [04:18] >> It's a brand new claim. Now, let me [04:20] explain why they're doing it. So, I [04:22] thought about this because I encountered [04:23] this. I'll tell you a quick story. I was [04:25] once invited to speak, you know, before [04:28] uh before October 7th and I got involved [04:30] in a lot of more political messaging and [04:32] and advocating on behalf of Israel. My [04:33] career is really Jewish Christian [04:35] relations. A lot of it in the academic [04:37] space, speaking in churches and [04:38] Christian seminaries. I have [04:39] relationships with Christian theologians [04:41] and leaders. And I was once invited to [04:44] speak at a Presbyterian church in the [04:47] state of Wyoming. And that's very [04:49] unusual because the Presbyterian Church [04:51] of the United States of America, the [04:53] PCUSA, is very anti-Israel. They support [04:57] BDS. They're very, very anti-Israel. But [04:59] there was this there was this one u u [05:02] Presbyterian pastor, a woman out in [05:05] Wyoming, and she wanted to have me speak [05:06] at her church, you know, to hear our [05:08] side. and she asked permission from the [05:10] state presbyter of Wyoming to have this [05:12] event. And he didn't want to say yes, [05:15] but he also didn't want to say no to a [05:17] pastor of one of his churches and then [05:19] have a disgruntled [05:21] pastor. So he reluctantly allowed her to [05:24] host me. And he sent her an email [05:26] allowing her to host me and also saying [05:29] that it had to be recorded. The [05:30] recording had to be sent to him. There [05:31] was all these stipulations. But the [05:33] opening line of his email to her was he [05:35] said, "I want to make my position clear. [05:38] I do not equate the Jewish people of [05:41] today with the biblical nation of [05:43] Israel." [05:45] That was his opening line. And she [05:47] showed me the email. I don't think he [05:48] thought she'd show me the email. And she [05:50] showed me the email and I thought to [05:51] myself, that's so interesting. Like this [05:53] is a really a brand new thing. And then [05:54] I looked into it and I realized it's a [05:56] claim that's only surfaced in the last [05:58] few decades. So why? So let me it's very [06:01] simple actually [06:04] the the classic Christian uh doctrine of [06:08] the Jews is what's called [06:09] supersessionism or replacement theology [06:11] and that was the dominant view of all [06:14] Christians from Augustine's time until [06:18] until today for most of that time [06:21] Christians believed that the church had [06:23] replaced Israel that the Jewish people [06:24] had lost their covenant [06:27] right and everyone knows that [06:29] >> but it really became a popular doctrine [06:31] because Augustine who's probably the [06:33] most influential Christian theologian uh [06:36] maybe of all time arguably one of the [06:38] most he embraced this but he explained [06:41] it as follows. He said that the Jewish [06:44] people are like Cain who killed who [06:45] killed his brother and was then a [06:47] wanderer for the rest of his life. So [06:49] too the Jewish people for killing Jesus [06:52] are destined and he he also based it on [06:54] a verse in Psalms. He had a whole [06:55] there's a whole passage in his book, The [06:57] City of God, where he explains this that [06:59] the Jews are destined to be scattered [07:02] and powerless in exile forever [07:07] as a as a witness to bear witness to the [07:11] consequences of rejecting Jesus. Okay? [07:14] And that became the dominant theology of [07:17] the Catholic Church. And that's the way [07:18] most Christians believed. And even in [07:20] the Protestant circles where they [07:21] embraced other forms of supersessionism, [07:24] it was all kind of built on this [07:26] construct that that Augustine had [07:28] formulated. What's the problem? [07:29] >> The problem is that when you make an [07:31] assertion like that, an esqueological [07:33] assertion that the Jewish people will be [07:35] in exile forever, and meanwhile, the [07:37] Jews at the time are saying, "Well, [07:39] yeah, we've been in exile for a while, [07:40] but we believe that we're going to go [07:42] back one day." Someone's going to be [07:44] right and someone's going to be wrong. [07:46] It's not like one person believes in the [07:48] Trinity and one person doesn't and you [07:50] never have to. It never comes to a head. [07:52] You just have different beliefs. If [07:54] you're making an assertion about history [07:56] >> Yeah. [07:57] >> Let's see what happens. So, what happens [07:59] when the Jewish people who have an [08:01] unbroken chain of who we are? We have [08:05] it's a totally unbroken chain. We have [08:06] we have communal records and books [08:08] written by Jewish leaders from every [08:11] single century almost every generation [08:13] going all the way back to temple times. [08:15] It's we know exactly who we are and [08:16] where we've been. The assertion that the [08:18] Jews of today aren't the real Jews is [08:20] not held by any legitimate historian [08:22] because it's completely ahistorical [08:24] nonsense. It's easy to refute. And this [08:26] that's also what makes this so [08:28] interesting that the here's here's the [08:31] here's here's the problem that these [08:33] people are faced with. History [08:35] progresses and and lo and behold, [08:38] the Jewish people are in gathered to the [08:40] land of Israel after a thousand after [08:43] thousands of years in exile. We come [08:45] back to our land from the four corners [08:47] of the earth. And as the Bible says, [08:48] even if you are scattered to the ends of [08:50] the heavens, from there the Lord your [08:51] God will gather you and bring you back [08:53] to the land of your forefathers and you [08:55] will take possession of it and become [08:57] more numerous and more prosperous than [08:58] your ancestors. That's Deuteronomy 30. [09:00] That's the in gathering of the Jewish [09:02] people. It's then repeated dozens of [09:04] times. It's the most repeated prophecy [09:06] in the Bible. Okay? And no other nation [09:08] from the ancient world that went into [09:10] exile ever came back home. And many many [09:13] nations were exiled by invading emp [09:15] empires. So the only one that God said [09:18] it would happen that nation comes back [09:20] to the land of Israel. So now if you [09:23] believe in Augustine's doctrine you have [09:26] a problem because if Augustine was alive [09:28] today [09:29] with a prosperous nation of Israel in [09:32] our homeland in gathered from the four [09:34] corners of the earth he wouldn't have [09:36] said what he said. [09:38] >> Yeah. [09:38] >> So you have a problem if you're a [09:40] Catholic. If you well if you're a [09:41] Catholic who believes that if you're a [09:42] supersessionist you say wait a second [09:44] what do I do if I acknowledge that the [09:47] Jewish people today are the same people [09:49] from the times of the Bible then I have [09:52] to face the fact that the biblical [09:54] prophecy of their return has happened. [09:57] >> Yeah. [09:57] >> So so what do I do? I either have to [09:59] adjust my theology which is what [10:01] Christian Zionists did did. Christian [10:04] Zionists basically say, "Oh, wait a [10:06] second. Replacement theology that says [10:08] that the Jews are never coming back [10:11] turns out to be wrong." So this so so [10:14] they made a change. So all these tra [10:16] these traditional Catholics look at the [10:18] Christian Zionist and say, "Hey, that's [10:20] a brand new idea [10:22] and therefore they try to delegitimize [10:24] it." But what they're actually doing is [10:25] they're saying, "Hey, wait, we have to [10:28] adjust." And these and and these [10:30] traditional Catholics, they can't accept [10:32] the fact that the Jewish people have [10:34] returned to their land. So their only [10:36] way out, their only workound is to say [10:39] that the Jews aren't actually the Jews. [10:41] >> That's incredible. And you're right, [10:43] because they can't deny the return to [10:45] the homeland that's happened. It's you [10:47] can't [10:47] >> Well, they have to say that we're not [10:48] actually the Jews, right? [10:50] >> Yeah, that is in Gosh, you're [10:52] incredible. I'm there.
