Transcript [00:00] Tucker, he said it now multiple times. I [00:02] think anti-semitism is reprehensible. [00:04] It's immoral, but I should be able to [00:07] separate Jews from Zionists and and he's [00:10] making these distinctions so that he can [00:12] apply critique, which is really what [00:14] Tucker was saying that he does. He's not [00:16] convinced that the Jewish people are the [00:17] Jewish people. That's what makes the [00:19] anti-ionism anti-semitism. Meaning, if [00:22] you say I don't believe the Jews are [00:23] really the Jews, that's pure [00:25] anti-semitism. And so if that's the [00:26] basis of your delegitimizing of the [00:29] state of Israel, then yes, your [00:30] anti-ionism is anti-semitism. [00:33] >> Welcome to this episode of [00:34] Shouldertoshoulder, a podcast where a [00:36] pastor and a rabbi get to the heart of [00:38] issues that matter to people of faith. [00:40] I'm Pastor Doug Reid here with my [00:41] friend, Rabbi Pesaki. And on this [00:43] episode, we'll be having a conversation [00:45] all about Tucker Carlson's recent [00:47] interview with US Ambassador to Israel, [00:49] Mike Huckabe. Before we jump into our [00:51] conversation, please like our Facebook [00:53] page, and join our Facebook group, the [00:55] Shoulderto-Sholder Community, where you [00:56] can interact with Peso and me all week [00:58] long. The best way to support this [01:01] podcast is to go on over to Patreon, [01:02] subscribe to Shouldertoshoulder, and for [01:04] just $10 a month, you're helping us [01:06] bring this message of Shouldertoshoulder [01:08] to more and more people all around the [01:10] world. As a thank you for your $10 [01:12] subscription, you'll get exclusive [01:13] access to chapterby chapter Bible study [01:15] beginning in Genesis chapter 1 from [01:17] Rabbi Pesak and myself. So, go on over [01:20] to Patreon, subscribe to [01:21] Shouldertoshoulder for just $10 a month. [01:23] We are grateful for our sponsor, Israel [01:26] 365 News, which is the place for you to [01:28] go and get your news and information [01:30] before going to anyone else. Go on over [01:32] to israel365news.com [01:35] and be sure to check out some of their [01:36] articles and as always, check out Rabbi [01:39] Peso and my weekly columns. Peso, we [01:42] support some incredible products and [01:45] initiatives from Israel 365. What are we [01:48] supporting today? [01:50] >> What we are supporting today is anyone [01:52] in our audience who is spontaneous [01:56] enough [01:57] to want to go to Israel [02:00] in about two months time. There is an [02:04] amazing trip that Israel 365 is running [02:06] and there are few spots left and this is [02:09] a this is a tour that is the heartland [02:12] tour of the Holy Land. Journey through [02:14] Israel's biblical past, courageous [02:16] present, and hopeful future, and [02:18] celebrate its independence. April 15th [02:20] to 23rd. This isn't just a tour. It's a [02:23] mission to experience the land of the [02:25] Bible through its history, people, and [02:26] stories of resilience. Led by locals, [02:30] you'll connect with the heart of Israel [02:31] while walking where the patriarchs [02:33] walked and meeting the heroes of today. [02:35] Even more special, this year's tour [02:37] falls out during Yom Hazikon, Israel's [02:41] um Memorial Day for fallen soldiers and [02:43] Yom Hatmote, Israel's Independence Day. [02:45] Some of the most powerful days of [02:47] remembrance and celebration, and they're [02:49] amazing times to be in Israel, to really [02:51] see modern Israel, both mourning its [02:53] it's fallen, which with the war has even [02:56] greater uh current resonance, but also [02:59] the phenomenal time to be in Israel, to [03:01] be there on Israel's Independence Day. [03:03] What makes this tour unique is you'll [03:05] see how biblical stories come to life. [03:07] You'll meet local families. One of the [03:09] things that Israel 6365 does on its [03:11] tours is everywhere they go, you meet [03:13] local people to hear their stories. [03:16] Volunteering will be part of it as well [03:19] and visit off thebeaten path locations [03:21] that few other tours offer. If you go to [03:24] the israel365.com [03:27] website, but type in [03:28] israel365.comisrael365 [03:33] tours. Go to israel365.com/israel365 [03:37] tours. Scroll down to upcoming tours. [03:40] And there are other tours upcoming. If [03:42] you want to go to Israel, there's a tour [03:43] in June. There's others, but there are a [03:45] few spots left. April 15th, 23rd. That's [03:48] coming up in just a couple months. So, [03:49] if you've been itching to go to Israel [03:51] and you're kind of, all right, I got to [03:53] finally do this. We still have, again, [03:55] it's fourstar lodging, 9 days in Israel. [03:58] Uh, and uh 9 days, eight nights from [04:02] April 15th to 23rd. That's israel [04:04] 365.com/israel365 [04:07] tours. And if that's too much because [04:08] you're on the treadmill or you're [04:10] driving and and you don't want to stop [04:11] the podcast and just remember to Google [04:14] Israel 365 tours as one word and it'll [04:18] come up as well. [04:20] >> Awesome. And if you've never been to [04:22] Israel, you have to go. It changes [04:24] everything. So get there if you can with [04:27] Israel 365 on this upcoming tour. Well, [04:29] Pesak, we were together for an entire [04:32] week. It was wonderful. We were in [04:35] Nashville. We recorded our podcast live [04:39] and we had Shabbat dinner together which [04:41] was absolutely incredible. Israel 365 [04:44] did such a wonderful job with the [04:46] Shabbat dinner. It was my first time in [04:49] a synagogue on Shabbat for Shabbat [04:52] prayers and then followed by dinner and [04:54] we got to do it side by side. you [04:56] coached me through the service and it [04:58] was in Hebrew, but I had a Hebrew [05:00] English uh prayer book and got to follow [05:02] along and read some of the commentaries [05:03] and figure out exactly what was going [05:06] on. Uh we even danced around the room [05:08] together, which was an experience I will [05:10] never forget. But uh talk about your [05:12] Shabbat experience. You guys have been [05:14] doing this now at Israel 365 for four [05:16] years. It's the fourth annual Shabbat [05:19] dinner and there were hundreds of people [05:20] there. It was quite incredible. [05:23] >> Yeah, it was great. It was first of all [05:25] again Doug it was so wonderful to sit [05:27] next to you in the synagogue for the [05:29] prayer service it you know the the [05:32] relationship that you and I have had and [05:35] the depth of the relationship the [05:36] conversations we've had in a certain [05:39] sense I I was getting kind of emotional [05:40] when we were sitting there I was just [05:42] like wow like we've been through so much [05:43] together and here we are sitting in the [05:45] synagogue and and and you were [05:47] experiencing that spiritual side of of [05:52] of our lives and of my life because [05:55] Friday night and you could give your [05:57] reflections on this Friday night prayer [06:01] service is where the spiritual side of [06:04] Pesaf will comes out. It it does. I'm a [06:07] pretty, you know, I'm not known as a [06:10] kind of touchyfey type of guy, but when [06:12] it comes to singing in the synagogue and [06:15] just the emotion of it, my entire life, [06:17] even when I was a child, and I I have [06:20] very very strong emotional memories of [06:23] singing Friday night, this particularly [06:26] the song Yadid Nephesh, which is one of [06:28] the songs we sing, it's one of the [06:29] hymns, and we sung it there that night [06:30] as well, is uh is a song I I remember as [06:34] a child looking forward forward all week [06:36] to singing it. I mean, that's how much I [06:37] like Friday night services more than any [06:39] other service of the week, more than any [06:41] other service almost of the year. [06:43] Although, yumipur is a very very [06:44] important is really my favorite day. Um, [06:47] and I love those. I love that service. [06:49] But Friday night service is uh [06:53] I'm into it and the people in my [06:55] community and there are numerous members [06:57] of my community in Bamesh who listen to [07:00] this podcast, they also know I'm kind of [07:02] known for singing loud and really being [07:04] being into it. And it meant a lot to me [07:06] that you were sitting next to me and uh [07:09] and taking it all in. It was also a very [07:11] rockous service. I mean, I have to tell [07:13] you, Doug, it's not like that in most [07:14] synagogues most of the time. There was a [07:16] tremendous energy in the room. I think a [07:18] lot of it had to do with the Christians [07:20] who were there who were taking it all in [07:23] and the community fed off that energy. [07:25] But I want your reflections on this [07:27] experience a little bit more than what [07:28] you just said. [07:30] Well, I would say first of all to be in [07:33] a room like that in mixed company with a [07:36] former member of Knesset uh dancing [07:39] around the room with you was quite [07:41] interesting. All if you would have asked [07:43] me in Bible college did I have this on [07:46] my bingo card. There's no way it would [07:48] have been on my bingo card to be in an [07:51] Orthodox synagogue in Nashville with [07:53] 200, you know, people experiencing a [07:56] Shabbat prayer service and essentially [07:58] reading the Psalms and and praying uh [08:01] the the Amida that that you guys begin [08:04] with that personal reflection and then [08:06] uh doing it corporately was really [08:08] beautiful. But I'll say the two things [08:09] that I think stood out to me were number [08:12] one, all of our services in church have [08:16] microphones and sound systems and it's a [08:18] very controlled environment. the people [08:21] who speak are staged and you know [08:24] exactly what's going to happen and with [08:27] no microphones, no [08:30] really any this there's a obvious [08:33] liturgy, but there's there's not it's [08:35] not someone at the front necessarily [08:37] leading the service. Even the one [08:38] lectern is kind of behind in the middle [08:41] where people were singing from and kind [08:42] of leading things from. So it's not a [08:45] face forward and receive. It's a very [08:48] communal aspect. It's kind of stuff's [08:50] happening all around you, not just in [08:52] the front, which was very unique being [08:54] in that space. And the second thing I [08:56] would say is because there was no [08:58] microphone, the singing was very special [09:02] because it wasn't about the best singer [09:04] necessarily being heard. It wasn't about [09:07] this person leading or that person [09:09] leading. At one point in the service, I [09:11] even leaned over to you. I'm like, what [09:13] do you do if you have like a real [09:14] boisterous person that kind of just [09:16] takes over the room? because that [09:17] happens in church classes where you [09:20] don't have we we have the microphone and [09:22] we have security and all of this and [09:24] that's kind of to keep maybe some of [09:26] those wilder factions in your in your [09:29] congregation from dominating the room [09:32] and taking over the service. And you [09:33] said, you know what, the the rabbi of [09:35] the shul, he he'll he'll handle what he [09:37] needs to handle. And at one or two [09:38] points, he turned around and kind of [09:40] signaled somebody and they toned it down [09:42] or they they shifted the song or they [09:44] wrapped up what they needed to do. And [09:46] there was a respect for that. But [09:47] without a microphone, the the singing of [09:50] everybody together was really beautiful. [09:53] And I think for me, one of the things [09:55] I've always said as pastor, I've always [09:59] told our sound people, and now I feel a [10:01] little convicted, I would say the sound [10:03] needs to be just loud enough that people [10:06] can't hear themselves singing. Because [10:09] if they can hear themselves singing and [10:12] they can't sing, they're not going to [10:14] fully release the song that's that [10:16] that's inside of them. You're not going [10:17] to sing at the top of your lungs. And in [10:20] a room where you don't have a sound [10:21] system, everybody was singing. And I, [10:24] for one, am a person that I'm not very [10:27] melodic when I sing. And so I don't tend [10:29] to sing very loud if I can hear myself [10:31] sing. And it was there was a beauty in [10:34] the corporateness. And there wasn't it [10:38] wasn't about the performance or the [10:40] production value of the service was [10:43] genuinely just about the prayer and the [10:46] psalms and entering into this space both [10:50] individually and communally. So that [10:51] that's what really uh one of the things [10:54] personally that stood out and then [10:55] obviously being in that space. It was my [10:58] second time in a synagogue. The first [11:00] time was for a PUM event, which was a [11:01] lot of fun back in 2016. But I really [11:04] all of my Jewish Christian relations [11:09] content stuff events all happens in [11:12] ballrooms and in extra events. I I very [11:16] rarely have uh been to a synagogue. So, [11:18] it's very special. And we do a very [11:22] abbreviated [11:24] Shabbat in our community in the sense of [11:26] prayers. We do the bread, we do the [11:28] kadouch, we do the lighting of the [11:30] candles, and then we have a meal. We're [11:32] not The full service was very, very [11:34] beautiful and understanding and [11:35] welcoming in the Shabbat at the door. [11:37] There was just lots of parts that I'd [11:39] heard about and I'd read about in other [11:41] books, but to be there and experience it [11:43] from start to finish was very special. [11:46] >> Wow. I, you know, I'm wondering if we [11:49] should just scrap what we were planning [11:50] to talk about on this episode and talk [11:52] about this. What you just said is so [11:54] interesting [11:55] about [11:57] the difference between [12:00] what happens in church which is [12:02] essentially a performance [12:04] that people are watching [12:07] versus what happens in the synagogue [12:10] where and as you pointed out the leader [12:12] was in the middle of the room and [12:13] everything's happening around the leader [12:16] and no one's even when the leader's at [12:18] the front of the room you notice for the [12:20] second half of the service he moved to [12:21] the [12:22] He was on the same level as everyone [12:24] else. He wasn't he wasn't on top and he [12:26] wasn't facing the people. Everyone's [12:28] facing in the same direction. [12:30] >> Meaning there's no it's not a [12:31] performance you're watching. [12:33] >> And I'm happy that you said that because [12:35] one of my reflections over the years [12:37] being in church is that it's way too [12:41] much of a performance. Now I tell you [12:43] there's one church that I've visited a [12:45] number of times in Sou Falls, South [12:47] Dakota. You know, you know that I I'm [12:49] connected to a number of churches in Sou [12:51] Falls, South Dakota. Probably have a few [12:53] listeners there because it's it's one of [12:55] the communities I visited the most over [12:57] my years in Jewish Christian relations. [13:00] And there's one church there pastored by [13:03] Pastor Jeff Hayes, a wonderful person. [13:06] And it's a small church. His main [13:08] ministry is giving out food to poor [13:09] people. And he runs these massive food [13:11] giveaways. And that's his main ministry. [13:13] But he also has his church, and that's [13:14] what it all comes out of. And it's a [13:17] small church and [13:20] they use an old himnil [13:24] and everyone opens up their himnil and [13:26] they announce which hymn they're doing [13:28] and they all sing the hymn together. Now [13:30] there is someone playing the uh playing [13:31] the organ. It's like a really [13:33] old-fashioned church and he [13:34] intentionally [13:35] he intentionally has church this way [13:37] because there are people who want that [13:40] and again his main ministry is giving [13:42] away food but he wants his church to be [13:44] a place where people who want a very [13:46] traditional church service can come to [13:48] and have their traditional church hymns. [13:51] Okay. [13:52] And I remember being after being in a [13:54] lot of evangelical churches where you [13:56] basically have a rock band playing and [13:59] it's great by the way worship services [14:01] in church like you know when I when I [14:03] hear the music they they you know the [14:05] music is is is outstanding and in this [14:08] church watching you know stay you know [14:10] sitting at the back and watching what's [14:11] going on and seeing the himynelss the [14:14] the the thing that struck me was that I [14:17] was no longer watching in his church I [14:19] was no longer watching a performance [14:21] that people were for the most part [14:24] spectators of they're spectators who are [14:26] being moved spiritually and certainly [14:28] the worship in evang in these [14:30] evangelical churches where there's a [14:31] band playing. I'm not saying people are [14:33] totally passive. They are being moved [14:36] and they are putting their hands in the [14:37] air and they are it is bringing them to [14:39] a point of devotion and worship for sure [14:42] but it's not participatory and there are [14:44] many people there who literally are just [14:47] spectators. [14:48] So I this is a reflection I've had for [14:51] many years watching what goes on in [14:53] churches and it's so interesting to me [14:55] to hear you reflect on that uh as some [14:58] because again it's not only a Jewish [15:00] versus Christian thing. I think it's a [15:01] modern Christianity versus traditional [15:03] Christianity thing. I think there was [15:05] more participation by the people in the [15:08] past. [15:09] >> I would agree. And I think just in my my [15:13] last decade of going back and forth to [15:15] Israel and and experiencing the the [15:18] deeper roots and the ancient roots of [15:20] the Christian faith, there's a longing, [15:22] I think, among most people. They don't [15:25] quite know what they're longing for, but [15:27] there's a longing for a rootedness, an [15:30] ancientness to their faith. And the [15:33] modern rock band and TED talk is is not [15:35] cutting it for a lot of people. [15:38] Particularly, you see this amongst Gen [15:40] Z. They're going to Orthodox and [15:42] Catholic circles to find their faith [15:44] because they want something that feels [15:46] more lurggical, more ritualistic, more [15:49] centered in an and an ancient rootedness [15:52] rather than, you know, cool and hip and [15:55] with a smoke machine and lights. And so [15:58] that's a that's a trend we're seeing [16:00] particularly amongst the younger [16:03] factions of faith that that Gen Z is [16:05] actually growing in faith, but they're [16:06] growing in ways that the modern [16:09] evangelical church hasn't anticipated. I [16:12] would say the the other thing that was [16:14] really special [16:16] was at one point, you know, there was a [16:19] song that went it was in Hebrew, so I [16:21] don't know, uh it was a psalm and [16:22] everybody was kind of uh getting really [16:26] excited and then you took off and [16:28] somebody else took off and there was a a [16:30] line going around the the synagogue and [16:32] it was very special and I jumped in line [16:34] and we went and made a made a circle and [16:36] came back and when we got back to our [16:38] seats I I said to you I was like, "Now I [16:40] know where the Pentecostals get from our [16:42] our excitement worship service. It it [16:44] was very fun. I know you said it was a [16:46] little more uh rockus than normal, but [16:48] that was really fun and special and it [16:50] was neat to see see that for everybody. [16:52] And uh one of the challenges with no [16:54] microphones is you really for the [16:58] speaker when when Rabbi Tulie got up to [17:00] speak, you know, you had to get [17:01] everybody to kind of calm down and sit [17:02] down. And even the smallest side [17:05] conversations are are tough to speak [17:08] over. And in a room of 200 people, [17:11] having been someone that's spoken and [17:13] and been in that space, it it's really [17:15] tough to project and keep your voice [17:18] sustained at a level that everyone can [17:20] hear. So that's got to be a challenge in [17:23] uh especially in some of these larger [17:25] shooles where you have, you know, maybe [17:27] hundreds of people that come. That's got [17:29] to be pretty challenging. And then when [17:31] we moved to the dinner, it was the same [17:32] thing, trying to get everybody to be [17:34] quiet around the tables so that we could [17:36] do the prayers and so that we could have [17:38] the the conversation that Bishop Sterns [17:39] and Rabbi Tulie had together. But it was [17:42] incredibly special. When we moved to the [17:44] dinner portion, [17:46] I know you and I had heard from a few [17:48] people that we had some [17:50] shoulder-to-shoulder fans coming to the [17:53] dinner. I was not anticipating what we [17:56] experienced. It was quite special. [17:59] >> It really was. And uh you know [18:01] especially there were I don't remember [18:03] all the names. I remember the Berdicts [18:04] who drove in from Indiana and and it was [18:08] you know she were emotional and I was [18:12] emotional. It was like wow you know you [18:14] know you encounter people and realize [18:17] that you're a part of their lives [18:20] and that they actually know us pretty [18:22] well. Think about it. Someone who's been [18:24] listening to us for years knows Doug [18:26] Reed really well. knows Pesaki really [18:28] well. And so there's an immediate sense [18:31] of friendship and intimacy even though [18:33] we've never met the person because I I [18:35] tried to get into their head and think [18:37] all the things we talk about on the [18:38] show, all the way we share our what [18:40] we're concerned about and how we see the [18:43] world and our relationship and I'm [18:46] realizing that this is a person who's [18:47] privy to that who that's part of their [18:50] life and just trying to get into their [18:52] head. It made me feel even closer to [18:54] them and it really encouraged me that [18:56] what we're doing here really matters to [18:58] people. It was very special that from [19:01] Indiana to Alabama to uh they're right [19:04] there in Tennessee. For people to come [19:07] just to Shabbat, they weren't there for [19:08] NRB. They came just for the dinner so [19:10] they could meet us and have dinner and [19:13] be a part of everything was I I said to [19:16] Bishop Sterns, I was like, I'm not cool [19:18] enough to have fans. This is really kind [19:20] of kind of strange, but I so appreciate [19:22] it and and so glad that people are [19:25] drawing uh value for their journeys in [19:28] faith and figuring out uh their walk [19:31] with the Lord and the prophetic hour in [19:32] which we live. I think it's it's very [19:35] special and it's a very unique place, [19:36] very humbling place to be in uh as a [19:39] pastor to think that you know people are [19:41] wanting to know my life and kids and [19:44] family and what I think about the world [19:47] is is a privilege. [19:49] >> Yep. I you know we should get on to our [19:51] topic for the show to talk about the [19:53] Tucker Carlson Mike Huckabe interview [19:55] that I forced myself to sit through. [20:00] But you know the shoulder-to-shoulder [20:02] we often call the shoulder-to-shoulder [20:04] family. You say it every every week in [20:07] your outro in your intro. You mentioned [20:09] the shoulder-to-shoulder family. And [20:11] this experience again it really made me [20:14] feel that. And let me just add one other [20:17] comment. [20:19] Christian Zionism, [20:21] the entry point into it, the entry point [20:24] into it, not the definition of it, is I [20:28] support Israel. I stand with Israel. [20:30] Right? That's what it is for. [20:34] But there's a there's a deeper level [20:37] of [20:39] not supporting Israel but being nurtured [20:44] by the nation of Israel by being [20:46] nurtured by the relationship by by you [20:49] know it there's a there's a spiritual [20:52] side to the Christian Zionist movement [20:55] that is only I think now beginning to be [20:58] realized where there there are people [21:00] who've been in the in the movement for a [21:01] while and we're and Israel is becoming a [21:03] stronger place and Jews on this on the [21:06] Jewish side of the relationship. For [21:08] most Jews on the Jewish side of the [21:10] relationship, it's about raising funds [21:12] for a particular good cause. Not saying [21:14] that cynically, it's good. It's [21:15] wonderful. And Christians want to [21:17] support and and there were people at the [21:18] Shabbat from various Jewish and Israeli [21:21] organizations who were there to connect [21:22] with all the people. Israel 365's [21:24] Shabbat every year becomes a kind of [21:26] meeting place for a lot of people in the [21:28] movement. It's not just Israel 365 [21:30] people, [21:31] but I think that for a lot of the people [21:33] in the room, Jews and Christians, there [21:34] was a sense that we're taking this [21:36] relationship somewhere else now. It's [21:38] this isn't just about waving the flag [21:39] and saying, "I support Israel." It's [21:41] really about um what I think the nation [21:45] of Israel's relationship to the world [21:48] was meant to be going all the way back [21:50] to God referring to the people of Israel [21:52] as a kingdom of priests and a holy [21:53] nation and and what that means. the [21:56] house of prayer being a house of prayer [21:58] for all nations that the temple is [21:59] supposed to be that. And we refer to our [22:01] synagogues [22:02] as an expression in in in rabbitic [22:05] Judaism as as mikdash maat as as as mini [22:10] temples, micro temples. And if the [22:13] temple in Jerusalem is meant to be a [22:15] house of prayer for all nations, there [22:16] was a real sense because the Christians [22:18] in the room were not spectators. What [22:20] you just described of your experience, [22:21] you weren't a spectator in the room. You [22:23] were reading the English notes. you're [22:24] reading the translation, but you were [22:27] you were participating in this. You were [22:28] there in your way. You weren't again, [22:30] you weren't doing everything we were [22:32] doing. It's it's a little foreign, but [22:34] there was a sense of of of togetherness [22:36] that I think gave me a a a new glimpse [22:40] of what the endgame looks like that I'd [22:43] never had before. [22:45] >> Yeah, it was very beautiful and it was [22:46] very moving. I know a couple of uh folks [22:49] on the Eagles Wings team that are newer [22:52] to this space uh were very touched and [22:55] very emotional about it. I I will have [22:57] lunch and get a debrief from a few of [22:58] them later this week. But it it it [23:02] genuinely was a was a different [23:04] experience for everybody all the way [23:06] around in the best way possible to use [23:08] the word different. It just was unique [23:10] and special and I look forward to doing [23:13] it again. You and I have often talked [23:15] about joining up for Yam Kapor and God [23:18] willing we'll be able to do that here in [23:19] the years to come. Uh look forward to to [23:22] experiencing that. I know it's your your [23:23] pinnacle, your highlight of your year [23:26] and so I want to want to come to the [23:27] synagogue with you and experience that. [23:28] And I know it's rather intense and [23:30] there's fasting and it'll be a little [23:31] different on the service side of things, [23:33] >> but you know, to [23:35] >> as a as a Christian to connect to [23:39] that space and those traditions and the [23:42] the biblical narratives that we share [23:45] was really beautiful to to read the [23:48] Psalms and to be able to sit side by [23:50] side and look at the text. Um and you [23:53] and I and they made no [23:56] they didn't have any qualms about this. [23:58] Uh Rabbi Tulie and Bishop Sterns I [24:01] thought did a great job expressing there [24:03] are plenty of differences here. We're [24:04] not asking uh for uh us to understand [24:08] and we're not going to navigate and fix [24:10] all of the differences. But the 95% you [24:13] know when you and I sit down and look at [24:15] the Psalms we're seeing them as the [24:17] inspired word of God. And and so it was [24:19] easy to sit there side by side and go, [24:22] "Yes, we are worshiping the God of [24:24] Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I see that [24:26] through the lens of Jesus a as my [24:29] Messiah and coming and bringing me into [24:31] this covenant." And I think even Rabbi [24:33] Tulie used that, the idea of uh grafted [24:36] in and rootedness and all of that [24:38] language, which is very Paulian [24:40] language. And it was just very special. [24:42] felt right and it was easy to step into [24:46] a service like that. [24:48] >> Awesome. Okay. I think we we you know we [24:51] we told people in the title of this [24:53] podcast which hasn't been made yet, but [24:54] I'm sure it'll say our topic is the [24:57] Tucker Carlson Mike Huckabe [25:01] interview. So, let's just talk about a [25:03] few points that are in there, a few [25:05] points that need to be made. I have to [25:06] say before you go, Doug, I can't I can't [25:10] listen to Tucker Carlson. I have a hard [25:12] time with it and it probably has to do [25:13] with the fact that before he left Fox I [25:15] was a massive fan and listened to him [25:17] every day and I want to give a shout out [25:20] to my dear friend Grayson Levy who many [25:23] years ago when Tucker was on Fox and I [25:25] was a huge fan and he also watched him [25:27] every day said to me I think that Tucker [25:30] doesn't like Israel and I was like why [25:32] he never he never says anything [25:33] anti-Israel and he said that's exactly [25:35] it he never even talks about Israel even [25:37] when Israel is the top story in the [25:38] world he avoids the topic and he's Fox [25:41] and Fox is a pro-Israel network. And the [25:43] fact that he never even covers Israel [25:45] stories makes me suspect that he hates [25:47] Israel. And then he left Fox and he went [25:49] off the rails and and uh and my friend [25:51] Grayson was like, "Aha, you see, I was [25:53] right." And he was right. Uh but so I I [25:56] haven't I don't listen to Tucker much. I [25:58] avoid it. He grates on my nerves. All of [26:00] the affect I can't And I was dreading [26:04] sitting through it. And my dread was uh [26:08] I was confirmed. I I did not enjoy it at [26:11] all. And I'm not talking about whether [26:13] it went well or went badly for Mike [26:15] Huckabe or for Israel. I'm talking just [26:17] like it was an irritating, frustrating [26:19] conversation. If I was sitting in an [26:21] airport lounge and listening to that [26:22] conversation, I would not want to [26:24] eavesdrop on it because it would [26:26] irritate me so much. It would I found it [26:27] an irritating conversation. So I I'll [26:29] tee that. So that's my tea up to you, [26:31] Doug. Give me your reflections. What you [26:32] know, what did you notice in this [26:34] interview? So, I think before we get to [26:36] the interview, we have to address the [26:38] fact that Tucker took 24 minutes to [26:42] introduce the interview. 24 minutes [26:46] where he began with it's never about the [26:49] backstory, but now I'm going to give you [26:51] 24 minutes of backstory. It's never [26:53] about the interviewer, but let me talk [26:54] about myself for 24 minutes. that I [26:57] found incredibly disingenuous [27:00] and super frustrating because you you [27:02] wanted to give this interview that [27:06] was supposed to be [27:08] uh how it's supposed to be objective and [27:10] it's supposed to be about the [27:12] ambassador's opinion [27:14] >> supposed to be about clearing the air [27:16] >> and all you did was set it up and you [27:19] slanted it and you gave you you [27:21] literally positioned it so that [27:23] whoever's going to listen to this is [27:24] going to get all of this jumble mess and [27:26] then you can hear what the ambassador [27:28] says, but it's all it's all painted [27:29] already. It's already So that was [27:31] frustrating. I felt that that was pretty [27:34] disingenuous and contradictory because [27:37] he kept saying, "Well, I never do this, [27:38] but now I'm going to do it. And I never [27:40] do this, but now I'm going to do it." [27:41] And that that was frustrating at the [27:44] beginning of the interview because I [27:45] felt it was it was poor form from a a [27:47] quote unquote journalist. And then I [27:51] thought the content and the way that [27:54] Ambassador Huckabe handled himself, he I [27:57] thought he handled himself quite well, [27:58] certainly better than Ted Cruz and [28:00] others that have tried to step into the [28:02] pro-Israel space. Ambassador Huckabe [28:05] obviously comes uh he was a pastor, he [28:07] was a governor, he's very well spoken, [28:09] so I thought he did well. I didn't think [28:11] that he necessarily stumbled or bumbled [28:13] over anything. I thought some of the [28:15] questions that Tucker answered were kind [28:17] of all over the place with certain [28:19] things. He was like just grabbing at [28:21] this and grabbing at that. Uh but some [28:24] of the interesting points that were in [28:26] the conversation and the thing that got [28:28] the highlight that we have to talk about [28:30] is when uh Ambassador Huckabe talked [28:33] about he would be fine with Israel [28:35] taking all of the land. And that became [28:38] a headline and he since went and [28:41] clarified because Jordan and Egypt and [28:44] others all came out and said, "Whoa, [28:45] whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, what are you [28:47] talking about?" And his his whole point [28:50] in that was the way that Israel has been [28:53] conducting themselves and the way that [28:54] this has been going, I'd be fine if they [28:56] they took it all. Uh was that's the way [28:59] I took it anyway in the interview and [29:00] the way that it got chopped up and [29:02] slanted. But that does raise an [29:04] interesting question particularly for [29:06] our listeners because many of our [29:08] listeners are not coming at this through [29:11] a geopolitical lens. They're coming at [29:12] it from a spiritual lens. And we would [29:14] say that we believe the promise to [29:17] Abraham and the Bible speaks to those [29:20] things. Uh so what do we do with that [29:23] from a forget the geopolitics for a [29:25] minute forget what's practical possible [29:28] who's upset all of that from a from to [29:32] be to be a principled [29:35] interpreter of the Bible we would say [29:39] that what God says and what God has [29:42] promised he will deliver on. And God [29:45] gives a pretty big swath of land to [29:48] Abraham. And that never really comes up [29:50] because politics isn't about necessarily [29:53] what God said. Politics is about what's [29:55] possible and what could be. And in this [29:58] case, obviously, Ambassador Huckabe was [30:01] not uh was speaking more uh [30:03] hyperbolically than he was necessarily [30:05] uh practically or geopolitically. And he [30:07] probably uh you know, stepped in it a [30:09] little bit. But [30:11] spiritually speaking, biblically [30:13] speaking, if we're going to use proper [30:14] hermeneutics and we're going to hold to [30:16] our core principles, then we would have [30:18] to say that all the land that God [30:20] promised to the Jewish people is the [30:23] land that God promised to the Jewish [30:24] people. [30:25] >> I disagree. [30:27] >> No, even at a biblical level, let me [30:29] explain. [30:30] >> Okay, give it to me. And [30:31] >> by the way, uh I like I like Ambassador [30:33] Huckabe. I've had the opportunity to [30:36] meet him a number of times, including [30:37] privately. Um, and he's a great guy. [30:43] I'm going to be very blunt here. I think [30:46] he did not prepare for this interview. [30:50] And if he prepared, he prepared terribly [30:53] inadequately. [30:55] Um and [30:58] it showed in a number of of places. I'll [31:00] get to this exact question you're asking [31:01] in a moment. It showed in a number of [31:04] ways that he did not really prepare [31:05] properly. [31:07] But even biblically, and this is [31:09] something a lot of our even maybe our [31:12] this isn't a Jewish thing. I think a lot [31:13] of listeners might [31:16] even who know the Bible pretty well [31:17] might miss this. [31:19] When the nation of Israel Yeah. God [31:21] makes that promise to Abraham. Yes. [31:24] That this is this is the land I'm [31:26] giving. Okay. [31:30] When the people of Israel leave Egypt [31:33] and they're in the Sinai desert, [31:36] are they in the promised land yet? [31:39] Clearly from the narrative, they are [31:40] not. They don't talk as though they are. [31:43] No one says we've arrived in the land [31:44] that God gave us. But as soon as they [31:46] leave Egypt and cross that Nile, even [31:48] when they're already in Egypt, they're [31:49] between the Nile and the Euphrates. But [31:51] it's not treated, it's not discussed [31:52] even in the scripture itself. Forget [31:54] about later, forget about geopolitics, [31:55] forget about [31:56] >> it's never described as them being in [31:58] the land already. Wait a second. Aren't [31:59] they in the land? They're between the [32:00] Nile and the Euphrates. Aren't they in [32:01] the land God promised Abraham? [32:03] Furthermore, [32:05] Furthermore, and you might say, "Oh, [32:06] that's a desert. It's not really [32:08] inhabited. There weren't borders back [32:09] then. Borders were just determined by [32:11] the by the outermost edges of of [32:14] inhabited areas." That's, you know, the [32:16] concept of where border the concept of [32:18] borders as we know them, lines on maps, [32:20] is a very modern concept. Borders used [32:22] to just be whatever your whatever your [32:24] furthest most settlement was the edge [32:29] and beyond that was there was a concept [32:30] of no man's land uh of just areas that [32:33] were ungoverned right the whole world [32:35] the the old world was different than the [32:37] new world we have a different so when [32:39] God says okay here's but there are there [32:42] is a concept of borders in the Bible for [32:43] the land of Israel when God says I'm [32:46] giving it to you from the Nile to the [32:47] Euphrates what Huckabe's answer should [32:48] have been he says wait a second Tucker [32:50] you know the Bible [32:51] How come Moses rebukes [32:54] the tribes of Ruvane, God, and half of [32:56] she of the tribe of of Manasso? He [32:58] really rebukes Ruin and God. Half of the [33:00] tribe of Manasse attacks along [33:01] afterwards. These two tribes that want [33:04] to stay on the eastern side of the [33:05] Jordan River [33:08] and Moses and God God tells Moses on the [33:11] eastern side of the Jordan River that he [33:12] will not be allowed to go into the [33:14] promised land. Moses is between the Nile [33:16] and the Euphrates at the time. [33:19] >> Fascinating. but he's not allowed into [33:22] the promised land. Okay? And Reuben and [33:24] God get rebuked for not wanting to go [33:26] into the land God promised. And he's [33:29] been and they're between the Nile and [33:30] the Euphrates. [33:32] So, this was a this was just a blown it [33:36] was just a dropped ball. There were a [33:37] number of places in this interview where [33:39] I was just banging my head against the [33:41] wall because I felt that Mike Huckabe [33:43] had not anticipated the questions he was [33:44] going to get asked and simply and just I [33:48] don't think he did a good job. A lot of [33:50] people are praising him on our side. [33:51] People are I think what's happening here [33:53] is the people on Tucker's side are [33:54] praising Tucker for doing a great job. [33:56] The people on Huckabe side are praising [33:57] Huckabe for doing a great job. I don't [33:59] think it went well. If I'm an America [34:01] first young person watching this, I am [34:05] horrified at the fact that the US [34:06] ambassador came across entirely as a [34:09] defender of Israel. [34:12] >> And that rubs me the wrong way. Um I I [34:17] was not impressed. I wasn't impressed [34:19] with the whole thing. I didn't like [34:21] either of them uh in in the interview. I [34:23] love I love my kakabe. Uh but I there [34:27] were a number of things in the interview [34:28] that bothered me. But on the again on [34:29] this point, this is the correct push [34:31] back. The correct push back isn't well, [34:34] Israel is not trying to conquer those [34:35] territories and Israel is satisfied with [34:37] only having less than what God promised. [34:39] That's not the right answer. The right [34:40] answer is that even in the very text [34:41] you're quoting in the Pentatuk in the [34:44] Bible, not so many chapters later, those [34:47] parts of Israel are not considered [34:49] Israel. Even in the Bible itself, [34:51] they're not considered part of the [34:52] promised land. So, ah, so now we have to [34:54] say, okay, so what did God mean in [34:55] Genesis? Great. Now, we have an [34:56] exegetical biblical question that has [34:59] nothing to do with politics. What did [35:00] God mean by Nile to the Euphrates? [35:02] Because if he meant that, why are Reuben [35:04] and God being rebuked for wanting to [35:06] stay on the eastern side of the Jordan? [35:08] They should be they should be applauded [35:09] for conquering more of God's promised [35:11] land. Why is Moses told he can't go into [35:14] the promised land if he's in it already [35:16] according to the Nile of the Euphrates? [35:18] That's that's the right push back on [35:20] that because it's that's the Bible too. [35:23] So we say okay so now what is the answer [35:26] to that? What did God mean? Now you [35:29] could be uh it depends what how you view [35:31] the words of the Bible. If you are like [35:34] Doug Reed and Pesah Huliki who takes the [35:36] Bible as the inherent word of God and [35:38] and takes prophecy and esquetology in [35:40] the Bible seriously. So you have to ask [35:43] yourself, okay, what does it mean? God's [35:45] promise can't go on can't go unrealized. [35:48] So we have a contradiction. Now there's [35:51] borders of the land Jordan River to [35:54] somewhere in the Negv that are [35:57] considered even in the Bible itself even [35:59] in the book of Exodus I'm sorry in the [36:01] book of Deuteronomy and Numbers to be [36:04] the borders of the land of Israel and [36:07] yet God said Nile to the Euphrates. [36:11] So I would say esqueologically in terms [36:13] of where we are right now that there's [36:15] different types of sovereignty. [36:19] You know, I've said politically in some [36:21] of my videos and I think on on on our [36:23] show when we talk about what's going on [36:25] geopolitically in the Middle East, the [36:26] fact that Turkey has proxies in Libya, [36:30] in Somalia, in Syria, that it funds and [36:34] it controls politically, the fact that [36:37] Iran has proxies in Yemen, Lebanon, is [36:40] that a form of sovereignty? Is that [36:42] occupation? In the modern sense, we [36:45] don't think of it that way. The fact [36:47] that Israel has air dominance [36:50] from basically the Nile to the Euphrates [36:53] right now, is that a form of [36:55] sovereignty? Is that influence? Um, and [36:58] what if peace continues? What if the [37:00] Iranian regime falls and uh and more [37:04] countries in the Middle East become even [37:05] more cooperative with Israel and econ [37:07] and and Israel's economic power and [37:09] military power is projected in a in a [37:12] way that doesn't impinge on other [37:14] people's political sovereignty but is a [37:16] is a form of influence. Israel becomes [37:18] the regional superpower that it you know [37:21] perhaps that is a realization of [37:24] Abraham's um influence or so to speak [37:28] sovereignty or governance over from the [37:29] Nile to the Euphrates because again we [37:31] have a biblical contradiction God [37:33] promises from the Nile to the Euphrates [37:35] and yet even in the book of Exodus [37:38] leaving Egypt in the book of Numbers in [37:40] the book of Deuteronomy [37:43] etc it's simply not treated that way by [37:46] the Bible itself [37:47] That to me is the proper push back to [37:50] that to that particular issue. [37:54] That's beautiful. That was great. I [37:57] because I heard that and I went, "Well, [37:59] that kind of makes sense." And as I was [38:02] leaping through, I didn't necessarily [38:04] come to those questions. I came to [38:06] similar to what Ambassador Huckabe kind [38:08] of said, "Well, they're not trying to [38:09] conquer it. They're they're happy with [38:11] what they have, [38:11] >> which which avoids the question." and [38:13] Tucker was correct [38:15] >> to push back and keep coming back to it [38:17] because Huckabe was avoiding the [38:18] question. Again, I I don't think Huckabe [38:20] did well. Tucker wasn't polite [38:22] >> and some of these questions are a little [38:24] bit some of his questions were a little [38:26] were just gotcha questions. A lot of [38:28] them were, but but I don't think Huckabe [38:31] handled it well. Well, and you mentioned [38:34] Huckabe coming across as [38:37] a blanket Israel supporter far more than [38:40] the US ambassador to Israel. he came [38:42] across as far more [38:46] not America first, not in his camp, and [38:48] that's been some of the push back he's [38:50] gotten uh on uh the right side of the [38:53] aisle and you're saying correctly so uh [38:56] how how should he have approached some [38:59] of these things and what kind of stood [39:01] out to you that made you go ooh as the [39:03] US ambassador like that's not the [39:06] position to take? um [39:09] let's say on the protection of [39:10] pedophiles thing [39:12] um which [39:15] is a blight on Israel. I find it I find [39:18] it shameful and embarrassing that Israel [39:21] does that and I think he should have [39:22] been more forceful and less sounding [39:24] like someone who was being defensive for [39:26] Israel. [39:28] That was that was where Huckabe really [39:30] lost me was [39:34] again he he seemed more interested in [39:36] defending Israel [39:39] than in defending Christian Zionism. [39:44] And um it's bothered me about Huckabe [39:46] for a while. I love the man. But for [39:48] example, when he was pushed on the fact [39:50] that he had Jonathan that he hosted [39:52] Jonathan Pard [39:55] and you know Jonathan Pard is from an [39:59] Israeli perspective for many people a [40:01] hero. Okay, he was you know he he uh he [40:07] spied for Israel. [40:09] Tucker brought up this whole thing about [40:12] how he leaked battle plans to the [40:14] Soviets. Uh many people in Israel do not [40:17] consider him a hero. Uh he's he's a [40:20] mixed bag, [40:22] but he he spied on Israel's behalf. [40:25] Okay? He committed a crime. [40:28] Nations spy on each other all the time. [40:30] Even nations that are allies, they spy [40:32] on each other all the time. He is a [40:34] criminal. Okay? Served his time as as [40:37] Hakabe said. Yes, he was a criminal. And [40:39] I don't think it's appropriate for the [40:41] US ambassador [40:43] to even pay a condolence call. Like he [40:45] said, "Oh, I was just paying why are you [40:47] paying a condolence call to a to a [40:49] convicted spy?" Meaning, if I'm an [40:50] America if I'm an American patriot, I'm [40:52] like, "Listen, I love Israel, but this [40:54] is a a dark period of this is a dark [40:58] episode in the relationship between [41:00] Israel and the United States. [41:02] If Israelis want to say, "Yes, it was in [41:04] our best interest." If Israelis want to [41:06] say it was in our best interest that [41:07] Jonathan Pauler do that crime for us, [41:11] Israelis can say that Israel has its own [41:13] interests. Great. I don't think as a [41:16] sitting US ambassador should be meeting [41:20] with even accepting a meeting with [41:23] anyone [41:24] who was a spy against the United who was [41:27] a spy on the United States. It [41:30] embarrassed me. It embarrassed me. And [41:32] at the time I said it when when he [41:34] hosted pard and I'm someone who if you [41:37] go back to the early 90s in the [41:38] beginning of my political activist [41:39] career I was active in the pard campaign [41:42] because he got a sentence that was too [41:44] severe. Huckabe brought up the fact that [41:45] he got a very severe sentence and he [41:47] served it. It's true. And the free [41:49] Jonathan Pard campaign was not about [41:51] saying he was innocent. It was always [41:53] about and it was a campaign Doug for you [41:55] were involved in this movement. It was a [41:56] big campaign in the pro-Israel movement. [41:58] It was a campaign saying he got a a [42:01] punishment that was not commensurate [42:02] with his crime. That was what that's [42:04] what what it was about. But that doesn't [42:05] mean that we honor the guy. [42:08] That doesn't mean that we the you but [42:10] again if Mike Huckabe Christian Zionist [42:13] host of of his show on TBN wants to [42:19] honor Jonathan Pard for for helping [42:22] Israel at a time that the United States [42:24] might have been concealing information [42:25] that was uh that that that related to [42:28] Israel's national security as a spy for [42:32] Israel. And he wants to meet with him [42:33] because he's a because he's a Christian [42:35] lover of Israel. Wonderful. you're a [42:36] sitting ambassador of the United States. [42:38] I thought that that was um I I think [42:41] Huckabe should have said, "I shouldn't [42:44] have done that." And had he simply said, [42:46] "I shouldn't have done that," I think it [42:49] would have played a lot better than [42:51] making it seem like it was no big deal. [42:54] Of course. Well, and I think Tucker, one [42:57] of the interesting points that I found [42:59] out found that he gave that I looked at [43:03] and I went, "Okay, that's interesting." [43:04] And I think it's actually worth us [43:06] talking about the principle. I think his [43:07] motivations in saying some of it is [43:10] really to give himself air cover on kind [43:12] of what he does. But he was making the [43:14] point and he said it now multiple times. [43:17] I've seen several clips elsewhere, not [43:18] just in this interview where he was [43:20] like, "Listen, I think anti-semitism is [43:22] reprehensible. I think that, you know, [43:26] it's immoral. It's he makes this kind of [43:29] disclaimer and but I should be able to [43:32] separate Jews from the Israeli [43:35] government from Zionist and he's making [43:38] these distinctions so that he can apply [43:40] critique. [43:42] I think there is validity as you were [43:45] just doing right now in holding a [43:48] position where we support [43:51] Israel's right to exist. We stand with [43:54] the Jewish people, but then we can [43:56] critique policies of the Israeli [43:58] government just like we critique [44:00] policies of the American government. And [44:02] I understand Tucker's coloring that to [44:04] give himself air cover to do some of the [44:06] things that he does that you and I [44:08] vehemently disagree with. Uh but is [44:11] there is there validity to his principle [44:13] and to his point that one can hold the [44:16] position that [44:18] anti-semitism is immoral and yet I can [44:23] hold these separate distinctions and [44:25] critiques of the Israeli government or [44:27] of uh certain factions within the Jewish [44:30] people. Is that is that a fair uh [44:32] assessment and principle? [44:34] >> It all depends how it's done and what [44:36] exactly is said. Look, I the problem [44:40] with [44:42] drawing a distinction between [44:43] anti-ionism and anti-semitism at this [44:46] point at this point in time [44:50] is that [44:53] the Jewish people are a nation. And this [44:56] also speaks to a larger issue that they [44:58] just kept talking past each other and [45:00] arguing about that I think Huck could be [45:01] handled very poorly, which was this [45:04] whole issue of the identity of the [45:05] Jewish people and who's legitimately a [45:07] Jew, which Tucker kept circling back to. [45:10] And it it was it was the most annoying [45:14] part of the conversation without [45:16] question. It was so irritating listening [45:18] to because and it was irritating be not [45:20] because they were arguing or [45:21] disagreeing. was irritating because they [45:22] were talking past each other and [45:24] repeating themselves and it was just it [45:26] was bad TV, you know. It was but it it [45:31] was but the problem is that [45:35] if you [45:37] the only way you can believe that the [45:40] Jewish people do not have a right to [45:43] their own homeland in the land of Israel [45:46] is to not believe that the Jewish people [45:48] are the Jewish people which is really [45:50] what Tucker was saying that he does he's [45:52] not convinced that the Jewish people are [45:55] the Jewish people. That's what makes the [45:57] anti-ionism anti-semitism. [46:00] Does that make sense? That's what makes [46:02] it anti-semitic. [46:04] Meaning, if you say, [46:07] "I don't believe the Jewish people are a [46:10] people or I don't believe the Jews are [46:12] really the Jews," that's pure [46:13] anti-semitism. And so, if that's the [46:15] basis of your of your delegitimizing of [46:19] the state of Israel, then yes, your [46:21] anti-ionism is anti-semitism. [46:25] If you say, "I agree that the Jewish [46:26] people have a right to to have a [46:28] homeland in the land of Israel, but I [46:30] think they're corrupt, and I think that [46:32] their policies harm harm America, and I [46:35] think that they're bloodthirsty." All of [46:37] you want to say all of that, you might [46:39] just hate the political state of Israel. [46:43] But the problem is that, you know, [46:45] Tucker wants it both ways. He wants to [46:47] question the legitimacy of Jewish [46:49] identity, [46:51] but then say, "I'm only criticizing the [46:53] state of Israel. I don't hate Jews. [46:56] You follow? So, he's actually playing a [46:58] double game. When I'm criticizing [47:00] Israel, I'm just criticizing Israel. I'm [47:02] not I'm not criticizing Jews. I'm just [47:04] criticizing the state of Israel. Why is [47:05] that anti-Semitic? But then he's Well, [47:07] I'm I'm not convinced that the Jews are [47:10] actually the Jews. [47:12] You see what I'm saying? He's he's doing [47:14] both and and hiding behind and hiding [47:18] behind uh [47:20] his his criticism of Israel, hiding [47:24] behind the fact that he's just [47:25] criticizing the state of Israel. But [47:26] he's not. He's he's actually uh [47:28] questioning the Jewish identity of [47:30] today's Jews. [47:32] >> Right. And that that's what I meant by [47:33] giving himself air cover. But I I think [47:36] you're you're validating my point that [47:38] there is space to hold an intellectual [47:42] belief that the Jews have the right to [47:44] their homeland, that this is the [47:45] prophetic fulfillment of prophecy, and I [47:47] may not agree with everything that the [47:49] Israeli government uh does in the same [47:51] way that I'm a patriotic American that [47:53] loves my country, and I may not agree [47:55] with everything that the White House [47:56] does. I think that's [47:57] >> Israelis don't agree with I mean, [48:00] there's a lot of Israelis who don't [48:01] agree [48:02] >> with Correct. I mean, in terms of [48:04] everything the Israeli government does, [48:05] most Israelis don't agree with [48:06] everything the Israeli government does. [48:08] And a good portion of Israelis also [48:10] think that Prime Minister Netanyahu is a [48:12] manipulative, lying, you know, [48:16] you know, person. I personally have very [48:19] mixed feelings about the man. I do [48:21] believe that he's the best prime [48:22] minister for us right now and I'm [48:24] grateful for a lot of the things he's [48:26] done and I've been a big flag waving fan [48:29] of his in the past, but I also see [48:30] massive flaws in the person in terms of [48:32] his personality and and I do believe he [48:35] is a manipulative person. So when people [48:37] look at him and think he's manipulative, [48:38] that ain't anti-semitism, unless of [48:40] course it means they think that the the [48:41] Jews are manipulative. But yeah, I mean [48:45] the problem is that Tucker pretends to [48:48] be like, well, I just, you know, I'm [48:49] just criticizing the state of Israel. [48:50] I'm just criticizing political, you [48:51] know, if I criticize Israel, I'm called [48:52] an anti-semite. [48:54] >> Yeah, but you're also questioning the [48:55] Jewish identity of Jews. [48:57] >> That That's like ultimate anti-semitism. [49:00] >> I think it would be fascinating for us [49:02] to do an episode on that, the the the [49:06] history of the Jews in that way, [49:09] tracking it all the way back to biblical [49:11] times, having an expert on to do that [49:13] because it is a conversation that comes [49:15] up on the far right in in some of those [49:18] uh you MAGA camps. I think it would be [49:20] fascinating for some of our listeners to [49:22] understand that uh the Jewish people [49:24] have been the Jewish people for [49:26] thousands of years and there's there's a [49:28] continuity to it. There's a continuous, [49:30] >> you know, kind of lineage. I think [49:32] that'd be a fascinating conversation for [49:34] us to have. I think as we kind of wrap [49:37] up the the interview, I I thought I I [49:40] maybe I'm being a bit more generous to [49:42] uh Ambassador Huckabe, but I happen to [49:45] very much uh like his affect and I I [49:47] like the way that he approaches. [49:49] >> He's wonderful. He's wonderful. [49:51] >> And so I give him the benefit of the [49:52] doubt. And so I I would say that was my [49:55] conclusion on the interview. If you came [49:57] watching this interview and you agreed [49:59] with Tucker and you liked Tucker, didn't [50:01] move the needle for you. If you came [50:03] into the interview and you liked [50:04] Ambassador Huckabe and you're in the [50:06] pro-Israel camp and you and that it [50:09] didn't didn't move the needle for you, [50:10] you went, "Okay." And that was kind of [50:12] the way that as I wrapped up the [50:14] interview, I went, "I don't think this [50:15] is going to necessarily move the [50:17] conversation forward one way or the [50:18] other. I thought Ambassador Huckabe did [50:22] uh just fine." And to your point on a [50:24] couple of those things, sure, could he [50:26] have done better? But I kind of expected [50:28] what we got from Tucker. was very [50:30] surprised by the 24minute introduction [50:33] and I think that overall it's going to [50:35] be a blip on the radio. [50:37] >> It wasn't it wasn't just a 24-minute [50:38] introduction. Uh [50:41] Eton Fishberger, who we've had on the [50:43] show, [50:44] >> did some number crunching on what [50:46] happened in this interview. [50:48] >> Tucker Carlson spoke for 59.8% [50:52] of the time [50:53] >> with Huckabe speaking for 40.1% of the [50:57] time. [50:58] >> Wow. Okay, 60 basically 60% of the [51:01] interview was Tucker talking and he [51:03] compared it to his interview where he [51:06] was which which was all about saying [51:08] that Israel persecutes Christians that [51:10] he did with this guy Farus Abraham where [51:13] Farus spoke for 66% of the interview and [51:16] Tucker spoke for 34% of the interview [51:20] and uh and Eton if you go to Eton [51:23] Fishberger's Twitter which you should [51:25] follow everyone in the pro-Israel space [51:26] should be following Eton Fishberger on [51:28] Twitter [51:29] You'll also see where he has some other [51:31] statistics about the interview in terms [51:32] of how long Tucker would let Huckabe [51:35] speak for before interrupting him, how [51:36] many times he interrupted him, and he [51:38] compares it to other interviews that [51:40] Tucker has done. And you see here that [51:42] Tucker really did not let Huckabe speak. [51:46] If you're entering, if you're [51:47] interviewing someone, the interview [51:48] should not end up that you spoke for 60% [51:50] of the time. [51:52] >> Correct? [51:53] Our best interviews on [51:55] shoulder-to-shoulder. Our best [51:56] interviews here are when we get a guest [51:58] and we ask a question and they [52:00] pontificate. They're the expert. They're [52:01] they're the reason that they're on the [52:03] show. You know, when we have an episode [52:04] like this, we get to pontificate and [52:06] talk and and think through stuff. So, I [52:09] again, I don't think it moved the needle [52:11] uh for either the pro-Israel crowd or [52:12] the anti-Israel crowd. I think if you [52:15] came to the interview with your [52:16] preconceived ideas, you left with them [52:19] and uh overall uh it's not going to not [52:22] going to shatter the planet, change [52:24] anything. So, Uh, I think it Yeah, I [52:28] think it was uh worth it's it's worth [52:30] watching uh just to to get [52:32] >> I was again I was just disappointed as [52:34] much as you say it didn't move the [52:35] needle but the problem is that it didn't [52:37] have to be that way because Huckabe [52:38] could have prepared better for these [52:40] questions. He could have known for [52:41] example he could have known the casualty [52:43] numbers in Gaza. He didn't know them [52:45] because this stuff has been published [52:46] already. he could have known. There's [52:48] things that he could have that I felt [52:51] that it was malpractice by his team, by [52:54] whoever's around him that he was not [52:56] better prepared. And again, I say this [52:58] as an admirer of his. I like him. I [53:02] I think he's a wonderful person. [53:05] I I'm not sure he did the best job, but [53:09] that's over. It's behind us. And [53:12] hopefully I'll never have to watch that [53:14] again. [53:17] Well, thank you for listening or [53:19] watching this today. You enjoyed today's [53:22] episode, please like, rate, share this [53:24] podcast, subscribe on Patreon, come on [53:26] over to Facebook, like our page, join [53:28] our group as we would love to connect [53:29] with more and more of our [53:30] shoulder-to-shoulder family. We'll see [53:32] you on our next episode.
